I've sold Nordost before and enjoyed their Valhalla speaker wire (among others) in my home. When I finally sold the Valhalla and replaced it with Red Dawn my wife came in from the other room and asked me what I did to the stereo. Years later I'm still trying to get my jaw off the floor. I say this though to illustrate that this audio stuff absolutely follows the principle of diminishing returns. The difference between a $50 pair of speakers and a $500 pair is extraordinary. The difference between a $500 and $5000 pair is large but far less extraordinary. You really need to make a gigantic leap in my opinion from $5000 to, say, $50,000 in order to justify the difference again. That isn't to say that a $25k pair isn't better than the $5k it's just that it's more subtle a difference than the $50k jump. The same thing exists with cable. Do cables make a difference? Yes. Will you hear it? May be. Will you appreciate the jump from $250 / pair to $5000? Yep. $5000 to $10k?
Nordost Odin Cables
Of course, all cables are useless unless the equipment is supplied with power, so let's start with the Odin power cord—after all, if the AC-power signal isn't up to snuff, the gear won't perform its best, or so they say. The Odin power cord uses six close-tolerance, 16AWG, 99.99999-percent oxygen-free copper (OFC) conductors, each covered by an 85-micron layer of extruded silver and suspended in a dual micro mono-filament matrix—two twisted strands of fluorinated ethylene propylene (FEP) are helically wound around each conductor to precisely space it from the insulating sleeve. Finally, the entire structure is enclosed in the company's proprietary TSC (Total Signal Control) shield.
The claimed result is a new level of power-transmission efficiency combined with superb mechanical damping and rejection of external RFI/EM interference. And the cost? A 1.25-meter length is $11,000, while 2.5m is $16,000, and 5m is $26,000.
Starting at the beginning of the audio signal path, the Odin tonearm cable is designed to transport the miniscule signals from a turntable tonearm—often a thousandth the amplitude of a CD player's output—without causing irreparable harm. This cable includes a dedicated ground wire and uses four 23AWG, 99.99999-percent OFC conductors with extruded-silver sheathing in a dual micro mono-filament TSC design, which is said to tightly control the dielectric characteristics and increase mechanical damping, resulting in increased audible transparency and dynamic precision as well as a lower noise floor. A 1.25m length will set you back $10,000, and each half meter more adds $2000 to the cost.
Analog interconnects are essential in any A/V system, and Nordost offers Odin interconnects in single-ended and balanced varieties with RCA and XLR connectors, respectively. Both types use eight 23AWG conductors of 99.999999-percent pure OFC clad with extruded silver in a dual micro mono-filament TSC design. These cables can be yours starting at $14,000 for a stereo pair 0.6 meter long; add $2000 for each half meter of extra length.
Most audiophiles have at least one digital source in their systems, so they need digital interconnects as well. Available with 75Ω RCA or BNC or 110Ω XLR connectors for S/PDIF or AES/EBU devices, respectively, the Odin digital interconnect uses all the same design elements as the company's other flagship cables, though the 75Ω version has only one 16AWG conductor, while the 110Ω model has two 18AWG conductors and two 22AWG drain wires. A 1.25m length of either version costs $10,000, while 2.5m is $13,000 and 5m is $19,000.
The last electrical leg of an audio signal's journey is the speaker cable. Using 24 20AWG conductors with the same construction parameters as the other Odin cables and available with either spade lugs or banana-pin connectors, these are arranged in four flat groups of six wires each to allow bi-wiring or bi-amping. A 1m stereo pair costs $20,000, and each additional half meter adds $3000.
You could easily spend six figures to connect all your gear with these cables, so the big question is how much improvement do they realistically provide? They've garnered glowing reviews in the audiophile press, but I contend that any improvements are most noticeable when the rest of the system is similarly ultra-high-end—anything less will drown the effect of the cables in other problems. But if you've got the audiophile itch—and the scratch to match—I'm willing to bet you can't do better than Odin.
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Comments
total waste of money, oxygen free, NONSENSE!! I work with video and audio engineers. there is no truth to any sound improvement with these or any other cable brands of this level.Let me explain, there are no studio's made anywhere that uses cables of this type to wire there equipment..They use Canare or Belden.With that being said how are these high end cables going to improve the sound coming out of those studio's?
"I contend that any improvements are most noticeable when the rest of the system is similarly ultra-high-end" Scott, No, there won't be any improvement whatsoever no matter what and you probably know this already. Comments like this really hurt your reputation in the eyes of well-educated readers.
To Joe R, typical response from industry. I'm a drummer so use live instruments as a reference. I don't have Odins but I can tell you going from Mogami (another so called industry standard) to Nordost Frey on JLAudio subwoofers was easily audible and sonically transforming. Cost of Odins is out there but then there is gear out there, similarly priced, look at the Avantgarde Trios mentioned on this site. Studio's need to look at cables, gosh they are at the coal face, one studio guy who believes in better cables is Barry Diament Soundkeeper recordings.
Altug, not everyone agrees with you, including some "golden ears" whose observations I respect very much. Truly well-educated readers know that this is a complicated issue with no clear-cut answers, only clear-cut opinions. And I stand by my statement that any improvement there might be will be audible only if the rest of the system is absolutely top-flight.
The purpose of a wire (i. e. cable)is to allow the transfer of electrons. The characteristics of these transfers is well understood.It's fairly simple for an EE to design a reasonably priced cable for a particular application, such as interconnects or speaker wire. Beyond that we're into voodoo, not physics. These supper expensive cables give you bragging rights and nothing else, And an expensive power cord is the ultimate absurdity.
"Any improvement there might be will be audible only if the rest of the system is top flight". So what you are saying is the top flight "ultra expensive" esoteric equipment we read about "might be" in "cahoots" with the top flight ultra expensive interconnect companies as this could be the only way one can "possibly" maximize the performance of this equipment. This is an old argument whose ship "sailed" long ago.
Cables, cables, cables... Mega bucks on cables, products for every salesperson's dreams. Hey folks if ya want to blow wad on mega bucks cables so be it, but you are more like a dog chasing its tail in doing so. Sure the thin, poorly to no shielding freebie cables are cr@p but any well shielded, of sufficient gauge and design cables with proper fittings will provide all you need to get the most electronically out of your system. It's funny how some audio/videophiles will spend a King's fortune on uber-cables which will likely not give you any appreciable performance upgrade relative to cost put in but often have rooms where gear is shoddily setup, speakers plunked down here and there with no effort at room treatments. Once you get a decent set of gear the next best thing to do is to set your room up as best you can and get some acoustic panels and bass traps. If you can't make em yourself you can but em and that will do more for you than any of these PROFIT GENERATING Cables will
The smug types who just know that cables can't possibly make a difference and who say "well I'm an an engineer and..." are the most ignorant. Plenty of recording engineers know that cables make a difference and do use them in their work. Ditto mastering engineers. Not every studio pays attention to this but so what? I know that Paul Simon's engineer Roy Halee is very particular about cables. His work speaks for itself. Now whether there's value in spending huge amounts on cables is a personal decision. And the person who thinks spending extra on power cords is totally ridiculous, has never done the listening. I have a friend who's a well known jazz engineer who brought his favorites to Sony studios (RIP) and the in house guys laughed at him...until he did a demonstration... I did likewise for a skeptical amp manufacturer who was left sputtering. "The AC comes hundreds of miles and you think changing the last three feet makes a difference? Well then don't bother putting a
The digital cable is even funnier than the AC power cord. It's digital. It either works, or it doesn't. If it didn't work that way, the computer you are using to read this post wouldn't work. Frankly, I'm tired of making fun of these people. Can't we just ignore the cable people and eventually they will just go away. Please don't post another cable article. I get mine at Home Depot.
Another smug dumb comment Mr. Digital is digital. Ask any mastering engineer who's sent files out to various cd pressing plants and gotten back different sounding CDs fom each. Put an analog interconnect between a DAC and transport and you'll get sound. But will it sound like a good digital cable? No. I got cut off last time before writing don't bother putting a filter on the end of a faucet since the water comes from hundreds of miles away and how can the last few inches make a difference? It does. Same with AC cables
Michael, Your faucet washer analogy does not hold water (pun intended :-) A washer as you noted is only like the A.C. plug you use to plug a device to the wall outlet. The cable whether you make it to be $X,xxx or just $XX is like the water pipe and hose you use. The water comes from miles away, as long as the pipe or hose is not broken you will get proper water flow. The 3 ft power cord you want us to think spending $X,xxx on is going to be better is sadly a delusion. Put on some fancy schmancy titanuim built 3 ft. water pipe extention onto the water coming into your home won't make any difference either. As long as the A.C. power cord is designed to safely carry A.C. 110~120 volt (North American) with a suitable plug connector, it is all you need to do. The cryogenic-ally frozen, uber silver plated gobbly gook 3 ft cable ain't making a hill of beans difference except to your wallet. Your mind is playing games on you if you believe otherwise... Sorry but the truth can hurt at time
OBTW, The digital files to CD mastering you also noted has nothing to do with what cables used. But with discrepancies in what a recording engineer may do when mixing and mastering the files to a 16 bit Stereo CD as well as what type of electronic gear used and who well said gear is maintained. Send those same digital files to multiple mastering setups where each is setup the same with the same level of gear, software tools and engineering tweaking them and each subsequent CD will sound the same.
No matter what the cost a sound difference can easily be heard by even non technical people between cables, off this statement there can be no doubt. Why someone spending $100k on a pair of speakers or CD player shouldn't use $40k cables is logical. The cost of all these items can be questioned including BMW cars. But they are at a point where some of us can afford them and desire them, probably because of the price!!!!!!!!!!!
This issue goes back over 30 years, when a fellow named Fulton first sold some extra thick speaker cables. Before that we all went to the local hardware store for 16 gauge lamp cord at 5 cents a foot and were good to go. Some folks are still using lamp cord for speaker cables. And that's fine. But they can do better. Just how much better is an argument that will go on as long as we use wire to connect our gear together. Can cables--speaker cables, analog interconnect cables, digital cables, and even power cords--make a difference? Yes they can. Can they make a worthwhile difference if you spend more than, say 10% of the total cost of your system on them? That's the key question. I'll only caution here that you should never spend big bucks on cables without an extended audition in your own system. Cables are the icing on the cake, not the cake itself. If you're not already happy with your system, you probably need something besides uber-expensive cables to make it r
(continued) If you're not already happy with your system, you probably need something besides uber-expensive cables to make it right. Cables carry the biggest manufacturer and dealer markups, by far, of any audio or video "component." A major profit center? Yes, but the margins on cables, and other accessories, is an important factor in keeping your friendly local independent audio retailer in business. But do I consider the prices for these cables, ridiculous? Yes. Obscene? No; no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy them. We all make our own purchasing decisions based on our desires, needs, and resources. If I had an extra $100,000 burning a hole in my pocket, I'd probably add a new, acoustically correct, properly treated, dedicated listening room to my house. That would make more of a difference in my life than $100,000 spent on cables. But your choice might be different.
My father was an electrician by trade. I also had this discussion with him. He had a relatively cheap Philips 68cm CRT TV hooked up to a low end Pioneer DVD player. He was using the standard cables that came with the DVD player. So bought along a ~US$60 Acoustic Research composite cable to replace the standard one. My dad was amazed at how much clearer the picture was. No more 'ripples' along the edge of hi-contrast edges. Small text was not only much more readable but was also completely stable on the screen. This is a simple but easily reproducable text that anyone can do. Yet why we continue to have people come along and say cables DONT make a difference astounds me. Sure, these Nordost cables are expensive, but that doesn't mean they don't make a difference. But each to their own. Those who think cables don't make a difference can remain ignorant. Oh, and another studio using high end cables - Skywalker sound use MIT Cables and their engineers always gave glowing reviews :)
how much does the wire in the loudspeaker cost? the amplifier? the cd player? its very simple, all the so called audiophiles who can tell the subtle differences between any two pieces of wire do a blind test. in fact do it for all audio equipment. i would suggest we would suddenly find the $500 cd players on par with ones costing $10,000. same goes for amplifiers and so on. 'If any cable manufacturer, writer, technician, etc. can identify such an audible design parameter that cannot be measured using available lab equipment or be described by known theory, I can guarantee a nomination for a Nobel Prize.' John Dunlavy - Dunlavy Audio Labs
All cables especially analogue cables are filters. What any user of A/V gear should want is a cable that offers the least amount of filtering if one wants a more accurate end result. Those thin freebie type cables are poor as they offer highest level of colouration through filtering. They also will offer the poorest shielding which may allow outside RFI/EMI interference. They also have poor quality end connections which will provide a poorer grip and are easy to break. Now go into a quality made, of proper gauge and design to carry the signal that said cable is suppose to, make sure it's properly shielded and has a solid and firm connector and Ta Da! you have a cable that will offer less filtration of sound and for the most part be more transparent and impossible to tell from it being say a $20.00, $30.00 type cable vs. a $200.00, $500.00, $5000.00 cable. Making a cable to be more transparent does not require extensive R&D costs or more so marketing babble but tried & true, sound design & manu
Psycho-audio def: uber high priced cables. Cables make a difference only to the extent that they are poor conductors of electricity and, secondarily, makers of impedance mismatch to the receiving system with resulting signal attenuation. That impedance and attenuation is not linear. It is related to frequency and to response time characteristics. You might hear something at some frequency level, but mostly what you hear is your over acting imagination.
Tangible: Yes, well with that explanation its no mean task to get a good cable then, so manufacturers are justified in charging what they do. I can't see a cheap way of solving those problems you present. You can hear sounds at all frequency levels provided your ears are up to it, certainly not imagination anymore.
Gosh, I did not think that my recommendation to Scott to profile the ultra high end Nordost Cables would cause such passionate discussion. Science aside, TJN is right in that the issue of whether ultra high end cables will make considerable sonic differences will always be with us. I refuse to believe that Nordost - a reputable manufacturer of cables, interconnects etc. is out to fraud "unwary" consumers. It is likely that anyone spending multiples of Benjamin Franklins on Nordost Odin cables knows what he or she is buying. Most cable manufactures have their "halo" product. Remember Tara Labs "The One". I do believe that much of the "claimed" improvements are subjective. Make no mistake, I'll take some good Tributaries speaker cable anytime over lamp cord. A good analogy is the automotive supremacy battle between the 40K Infinit G Sedan and BMW 335i - the auto editors all say the 50K BMW is the best. But does it really give THAT much more performance for 10K more. I
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